My Dad’s Story

This is a long form interview with my Dad about how he came to America. It’s always something that I wanted to create for my family for generations to come. However, it seems more important now than ever as I am newly married and starting my own family. It is a living document that will be updated through an on-going conversation with him.

I tried to capture as much of his speech and grammar as possible for his likeness. So please excuse any of that if you haven’t heard him speak in person.

Where were you born?

I was born on November 21, 1942, in Orsk, USSR, a town in the Ural Mountains. It was a camp. How can I describe this camp? It was done when World War II started. When the Germans came into Poland, most of the people went to the other side of Poland, where the Russian border was located.

The Russians took everybody who crossed the border and they put them in camps, like work camps.

Was it only Jews in the work camp?

I have no idea.

And where did your family come from, and what was it like being a family in the camps?

I wish I had known. I was actually born in the camp.

Right. So, I was born in 1942 and the war finished in 1946. So, by the end of the war, I was already probably, three and a half, maybe four years old. So, I don’t have a memory of the camps.

But I know one thing. My parents, my mother, my father, they met at the camp and they got married at the camp. That’s how they met, unfortunately. I always believe maybe, just maybe, that was their destiny.

What did your parents do for work before they were in the camp?

Okay, as far as I remember, my mother came from Vilno (Vilnius) in Lithuania. She was a teacher. And my father was born in Pruszków, this little town in Poland. His father actually was a produce merchant. My father did home renovation.

Do you know anything about their families from before the war?

My father’s father died when he was a little boy. He knew he had something to do with produce. I asked my father for memories for my future for the next generation. All he said was that he passed away when I was a little boy and he remembers a long beard and pais us so he was an Orthodox Jew.

I remember asking my father who his father was and what he looked like a lot and I would get mad that he didn’t know.

What about your mom’s family?

When I arrived in Israel one of her relatives were alive. Her “uncle”. I met him. The last name was Bruder. He was telling me that she was in Jerusalem with him before the war. She originally left (Europe) to escape from the pogroms in Vilno. She was so devoted to the family in Vilno that when the war broke out she got news that a mother (in her family) died and the children were alone. She went back alone. No one wanted her back to go but she went back just to save the children of the relatives. She got stuck there in the war.

I think she came from a very well educated family. Mr. Bruder would tell me and show me pictures. I never took them from him. I should have. Maybe then I was just worried about survival.

Did her uncle have family?

He was very old. Him and his wife. I remember that he called someone and a young guy came over and he was married and had a family. He told me he was one of the children who lives she saved.

How old were you when the family left the camp?

Three and a half, maybe four. Because if I was born right in 1942, and the war finished in 1946, by then we arrived in Poland. The Russians closed the camps.

How were you finally liberated from the camp, if that’s the right term? Who liberated you? Or did the Russians just let everyone leave?

Well, as far as I remember, after 1946, when the war finished, the Russians closed the camps. They put all the people who survived on the trains and sent them back to where they came from.

I know you were really young, but do you recall any types of stories about what their experience was like in a work camp?

No.

I remember on the train, we ended up in Poland, in this little town, Żary. And that’s how we started our lives in Poland. And my mother’s health condition was very bad. When she was about 30 years old, she passed away in Poland.

How did your mother pass away?

She had a heart condition. I am not sure what it was. It was 1946 in Poland with no hospital or medicine but no one could really help her. She had some kind of heart failure.

What did your father do for work after the war?

So, my father did home renovation again

Do you think that her passing was just a result of the conditions in the camp?

Very possible. Very possible.

Did he try to remarry after your mom passed?

He tried but nothing happened. The town in Poland had no Jewish single women. And he worked 2–3 jobs a day. There was no dating. It was just “Sidduch” an introduction.

One time I remember a woman coming and me and my sister were so excited about having a mother and that there was going to be cooking here. That we didn’t have to go to restaurants to eat.

Nothing happened with her.

There were restaurants?

There was kind of a restaurant. It was not really a restaurant. The Poles would go there to drink. It was like a pub. Food was horrible.

What was the process of rebuilding your life in Poland like?

Growing up in Poland… it is a very interesting question because this question is like all my life. Today, when you think of kids, they have toys, they have friends, they have play dates. You know, we didn’t have this.

For me as a kid. I remember one thing. As I was looking to play, what was there to play with? There were tanks, airplanes, and bombarded buildings. We used to play hide and seek in the buildings, me and the other kids in Poland, hiding in those bombarded buildings, empty, everything destroyed by fire.

There was nothing! You wake up in the morning, what you’re going to do now? Well, I want to play, so I go to play. I would go out from the house and see that there was standing a burned-out tank.

Tell me about the rest of your family?

My younger sister, your aunt, is in Israel. She was born after the war.

What was daily life like in post war Poland?

There was not only no place to play, but there was also no food. I remember waking up in the morning, in the wintertime, and running just to buy milk. There was a huge line, and when I came to the counter, there was no milk. And if there was a truck arriving with bread, there was a mob of people just loading or running to gather bread.

I remember, who had the food? Russian soldiers. We lived in a one-bedroom apartment. In the winter, I used to see the produce center from our apartment. When the farmers used to come selling the produce, the Russians used to load boxes with apples, pears, you know, things to eat, onto trucks.

I used to run, hiding behind the truck so the soldiers would not see me, climbing up on the truck just to steal an apple, or steal a pear, just to have food to eat. It was a major event just to have something to eat.

In Poland we had no Jewish neighbors in our building. Everyone would get paid once a month. There was one family where the father would drink when they got paid. The mother of that family would come ask my father for food for the children when he spent it on drinking. He would give it to them. I would get angry with my dad that would give them when we didn’t have food.

What was schooling like at the time, were you in school? Was there any type of system?

So I had a lot of problems in school. Why did I have problems? You know, in my little town, we had maybe four schools. I don’t know how to explain this to you, but me and another two or three kids in the class were Jewish. The Polish children used to call me, “you Jew, you Jew,” all those expressions about Jews.

I was skinny like a piece of paper. Very skinny, because there was hardly food to eat. Whatever was in my hands, I used to fight with the children, and I still remember one incident. I fought with this guy because he called me a “fucking Jew,” or something like that in Polish. I don’t know how to translate it.

I took a chair, probably heavier than me. But I did hit him with the chair, so they brought me to the principal’s office. I’m standing in the corner in the principal’s office, waiting for the principal to come. I thought they’re going to hear me. They’re going to talk to me, you know, and let me explain.

The principal, instead of asking me what I’m doing here, punched me like a boxer, straight in my face. So I had been thrown out of school. All four schools threw me out, and then I couldn’t even have education. So, childhood was very depressing and hard.

Growing up, my father used to work three jobs a day. I had no cousins, no uncles to visit. If a friend invited me, “come over to our house, we’re going to have a lunch with us or dinner,” just the smell of the food, wow. It was like a celebration, because I could smell food.

What happened to your extended family?

The only ones who survived after the war, it was my mother who passed away. She was 30 years old. My father stayed alive, and he worked three jobs a day. I hardly used to see him. Only three of us from the whole family survived.

That’s why to me today, it’s so important to see my children and grandchildren, while they’re building their life and generations of the family to hold it.

And I say to myself, this is the generation. My generation doesn’t exist anymore, they died in those concentration camps. The only ones who are alive today are me, and my children, and my sister in Israel.

It’s very important to you to pass down your history?

Yeah. But also, the continuation of the family. I’m thanking God every day, that I did get married and did have three children. They’re married now, thank God. And I can see this generation. I don’t know how long I am going to live. But at least that’s why I spend time with the grandchildren. And that gives me a little bit of satisfaction for myself as, you know, we’re not getting lost.

Can you recall how anti-Semitism impacted you from your childhood, and then once you later became an adult?

Well, like I said, from my childhood, it was very hard, especially in Poland. It was very hard growing up in Poland, being called, “you fucking Jew” all the time wherever I went. That’s why I didn’t give up. There was no threat to anyone who called me “a fucking Jew.” I was hitting them back, as skinny and small as I was.

And I was suffering, because I couldn’t have more of an education after that. I was 17 and I was growing up in Israel and I went to the army. This was different. Later on in a mature life, after the army and traveling to places, I had a better understanding of life and respecting people. To me today, a person is a person, and a human being is a human being, and it doesn’t matter.

The color of the skin doesn’t matter for me, or what group of people they come. This is very important: everybody is equal to me, the same way as any other Jewish guy. It doesn’t matter if the guy is Indian or Chinese or Buddhist or Christian. Everybody is the same.

How old were you when you moved to Israel?

I was 17 when I came to Israel. My father was very sick already. My sister, she was just a little baby. I think she was 11 or 12. I didn’t know the language right away. I had to go to work, and I remember my first job, it was to go to work on the farm, picking up tomatoes. And I was working there, and already I was supporting the family.

What was wrong with your father?

Before we left Poland. A few months before. In the old house we lived in. He missed a step and tumbled and fell. He hurt himself very badly. He was in the hospital for a long time. We got the approval to go to Israel when he got out but he wasn’t in a condition to work.

Were you close with your father?

Very close. Are you kidding me?

When my father got better. There was a company in Israel, a government company, building temporary shelters. Me and my father started to work for them doing 20 or 30 shelters at a time. I was with him every day until I made him retire and could support him.

We used to ride on bicycles to the jobs with the supplies. Then I saved some money and bought a motorcycle with a sidecar because I didn’t want him riding a bicycle by himself.

I didn’t like the work but I couldn’t leave him so I didn’t leave him. We worked together. I learned all of the things from him, electrical, plumbing. All of the things you saw me doing on the house in Dix Hills.

Did your father give you advice in life?

No. I hardly used to see him in Poland. He worked day and night. The government job was very low pay. He worked side jobs too and he would buy black market dollars.

What was there to give me advice. The only agenda was how am I going to survive or how am I going to have food. I remember long lines in the snow in Poland to get food.

Israel was the same way with work.

What was it like when you came to Israel?

In Poland, my father did all of the electricity for the building. Before that everyone in the building had candles. We had no toilet or shower. He had to go in the back of the building to a hole in the ground with a cloth shade. Sometimes there were a lot of people back there so my father put up a curtain in our room and we used a can and then we would have to take it and empty it outside.

When we came to Israel, we lived in one of the temporary housings for new arrivals. I was amazed because we finally had our own toilet and shower. On the first night I woke up to go to the bathroom and almost went outside. Then I realized I had my own toilet. I just wanted to sit there on the toilet all night because it felt so good.

I used to bathe once a month in Poland. In these buildings in Poland, we hardly had anything. How can a person go this long without a shower? In our town we had public places people would bathe themselves. You would pay for it and wait on line. I would go with my friends every once in a while.

One time in Poland, I passed a textile factory. It was German and then the Poles took it over. I walked into the basement and I saw two rooms and every room had a bath and hot water and soap. Wow. I filled up the bathtub and locked the door and bathed. I figured out that it was for the factory workers and during the day no one would use it. I would go back there during the day. It was the biggest luxury in the world. I brought my sister there after and my dad a few times but he was usually working.

After we arrived in Israel, the next day I went to the office and got a job. I spoke to the guy in Polish. Didn’t even speak Hebrew. He told me that the next day I would wait at 6am to pick up tomatoes. The truck was packed. Everyone spoke Hebrew. I didn’t. It was very hard but I did it. Later I picked oranges.

What was the process of going to Israel like? Did you have a direct path to entry? What was the path of immigration like?

The Jews who lived all over Europe would apply. The Israeli government took the immigrants to come to Israel. So it was very easy for us.

In Poland, we had to sign the papers renouncing our citizenship before we left our town Zary. Otherwise the Polish government wouldn’t let us leave. Then we went to Warsaw to the Israeli embassy to get our paperwork. Then we got on our train for a few days. We went to Czechoslovakia, then we went to Austria, then we went to Italy. We arrived in Naples and stayed in a hotel for immigrants there for 2 days and then we got on an Israeli ship called the Theodore Hertzel to Haifa. I think the boat took two days.

Could you get your Polish citizenship back?

In 1959 or 1960, we decided to emigrate to Israel. So of course, we got permission and we got the visa from the Israeli government to emigrate to Israel. But Poland was a communist dictatorship. I had to sign a declaration that I would give up my Polish citizenship to leave Poland and go to Israel. I was a child at the time.

So a few years ago, I wanted to get back my Polish citizenship. They told me, no, you signed the declaration.

I told them that at the time, Poland was a dictatorship. I had to sign it. Today Poland is a democratic country. It’s a different story. But back then, I had to sign it and that’s how I lost my Polish citizenship.

Did you have any struggles on the journey?

I have one memory. In Poland people worked and the money wasn’t worth anything. So there was a black market for dollars. I remember my father always having to get the black market dollars. When we were leaving Poland going to Israel he went to some guy talk to him about how to get money out of the country because you were allowed to have it or take it with you. He was very open with everyone. He told him about the money and that he was going to hide it. The guy blackmailed him as they were approaching the border. He was going to tell the guards that he was smuggling dollars so he had to give him a big part of his money. I remember being very upset with him for losing our money that way.

What city did you live in when you arrived in Israel and after?

In Israel, in Netanya. When I finished the army, after that, I started to build my life. I was traveling, spent a lot of time in Africa, in South Africa, living in Europe and traveling back and forth, supporting my father when they didn’t want him to work anymore. He got better, but he was older man already.

So my main goal was that no matter what I do, even if I was not in Israel, even when I was in Europe working, I would always send money to pay the rent, for them to have money for the groceries. As long as my father had nothing to worry about. Who’s going to pay the bills? This was my main priority.

Did you overall enjoy your life in Israel? Do you still feel a deep connection to Israel, even though now you’re living in the States?

I did enjoy life in Israel, definitely. First of all, I felt like nobody would call me names. And I felt secure and confident. I saw the opportunities and I also liked them. I thought that at least my father in his old age would be in Israel with my sister.

When you moved, Israel was a newly established state. Did you feel like you had an opportunity as a family that you wouldn’t have had in Poland or in Europe?

Positive opportunities. I think in Poland, when I lived, especially with all the anti-Semitism was going on then, I didn’t have much opportunity. I wouldn’t. Not only for me, but, you know, we left Poland in 1960. So Poland was still rebuilding itself. There was not much opportunity, even for the Poles. For two reasons, not only was there not enough food or jobs to do, but also, after the war, there was only survival for people. It was not much. When I arrived in Israel, it was open to do anything. Whatever you wish.

In Poland, even for the Polish citizens, everything was very limited, especially with food and with apartments. You would only see such things in the documentary movies.

What challenges did you face in Israel?

Israel from day one was a challenge. I came and I didn’t know the language. I spoke only Polish. Since I did speak Yiddish, that gave me the opportunity to be connected with people. But going to work in Israel, the Israelis didn’t speak Yiddish, unless you speak to the old timers, people who had emigrated from Europe. But the Israelis didn’t speak Yiddish.

So this was a challenge in Israel going to work and not knowing the language. The challenge was how to be connected, how to speak, how to ask a question. But I picked up the language very quickly.

When you moved to Israel, did you have to join the army or did you decide that on your own?

In Israel, it’s the law. When you come of age, for girls and boys, you have to go to the army. It is required, unless there were some heavy circumstances that meant you cannot. Then it’s justified that you don’t have to join the army.

What was your experience like in the army?

The army was very educational, especially about life, survival, and how to exist. Also, you learn. You know, in 1967 there was war, and all kinds of things. It was quite a life experience, that’s for sure.

When did you first go to the army?

I think like 2 or 3 years after I arrived. 1963. I postponed the first time because I was supporting my family. I was 20 or 21.

I was a foot soldier. Did training. I got a special diploma for target shooting. This first time was just a short time. One or two years. Then I went back home to start to work with my dad. After that twice a year I would go back to the army.

Then in the 1967 war I was in the Sinai and West Bank.

Do you remember the 67 war starting?

It started so quick. This kind of alarms were so common. Every week they were saying the war is going to start, the war is going to start. From the Egyptians and Jordanians and Syrians.

There was an announcement and everyone had to go to the base. Leave everything and go to the base. We knew this was different because it was in the news that the Syrians were preparing. And this was from three corners of the country.

What was the Sinai and West Bank like?

I loved the Sinai. It was like biblical land. We to see Mt. Sinai and Santa Caterina church. And we saw the Suez Canal. We would see the Egyptian soldiers on the other side.

One night, there was an Egyptian base we took over. There was an air field. El Arish. Everything was destroyed and there was no electricity. During the day there was a jet squadron that came. It was very impressive. I had free time so I stayed by the runway with pilots. There were 7 planes and 6 landed with wheels. The last one couldn’t open and had to crash land after circling. He landed on the belly of the plane at the end of the runway. Then it became nighttime and someone had to watch the plane otherwise the Bedouins could come and blow it up.

Every two hours people had to take a shift to watch. It was so dark you couldn’t see in front of you. In the middle of the night we were watching. We had these big rifles. In the mean time in the base there was big party. From far away I see dancing and laughing and music. My partner fell asleep and didn’t give a shit. The tower control was near the base. I had 6 bullets in the gun and I put flare bullets in the gun. I shot them in the sky toward the tower. They saw them and notified the base that a plane had to land. The party stopped and everyone started prepping the runway. They were waiting for something to happen and when I finished I asked my officer what happened and he said we don’t know, a plane had to land and it never landed.

And the West Bank?

The West Bank was bust. The Arabs didn’t bother us. It was very quiet for me.

Were you in fighting?

No, I was not in fighting. But I knew soldiers who got killed. Not in the front of the fighting. The young soldiers were in the front. I was in the reserves who would come in after.

How? Where? (did they get killed)

Some on patrols and some my booby traps. We learned not to touch anything.

When did you leave the army?

It was after the 67 war. I was tired of the army and getting called up and my dad finally had a home in Natanya at this time.

Before I went to the army, and afterwards, I worked with my father in the home renovation business with the government. He felt a little bit better. After that, I always wanted to see the world, so I told my dad not to worry about me. I spoke to my father and gave him some money I saved. I told my sister she needed to go out and work and stop just taking care of my dad.

Before I left Israel, I made my father stop working. I said, “Listen, you have to retire.” He received a small pension from the government. But this was not enough to cover all the expenses, so I made sure he had enough money. Wherever I was, I was always sending money to him.

I wanted to see the world. I didn’t know anything. I arrived here from Poland and that was it. I might die doing this. I wanted to see things, especially places that I hadn’t been in my life. I survived war on a daily basis in the army. Every day, I would thank God, for I was alive.

You were traveling all over the place after Israel? What was that like?

I will give you a small example. After the 1967 war, on my first trip leaving Israel, people told me to see something exotic. So I went to South Africa. I didn’t even know English back then. I could only speak very few words.

Coming to South Africa, the Yiddish language saved me on a daily basis, and allowed me to be connected with people. They connected me with the Jewish organizations, their synagogues, the place where I stayed. And Yiddish really helped me to establish myself over there.

But I left South Africa after three months because I couldn’t stand the apartheid. For example, some Israelis with dark skin would come into a restaurant and had to show his passport. Me, I walked in free. But my dark-skinned friend was always asked, “Show me who you are.”

I didn’t like this at all. It was easy to get a job if you were white. South Africa was beautiful to see. But to live there…No. I started to travel to the rest of Africa.

I started to travel from one end of Africa, from South Africa. I went by car and wanted to finish Kenya. I went from South Africa, went to Rhodesia, what today is Zimbabwe. From Zimbabwe, I went to Zambia, then from Zambia. I went to Congo-Brazzaville, from Congo-Brazzaville I went to Congo Kinshasa, then to Uganda, then Kenya. I saw the Kilimanjaro Mountain. I went to Tanzania.

Who were you with during these travels?

I traveled there by myself. Sometimes I slept in my car, sometimes I slept in my hotel. But those years were safer. As I say to my children, back then you could travel. There were no crimes like today. I was not afraid.

I said to myself, if God gave me life, surviving the war, surviving anti-Semitism, surviving Poland, surviving after the war and in Israel, what I have to be afraid of? So that’s why I was not worried. I traveled through all of Africa. It took more than a year.

I was traveling like a duck, two days here, three days there. I stayed places, and would call up the Israeli embassy, just to let them know, “I’m Israeli, I’m here in this country and I’m traveling here.”

Were you working?

Yes. To travel, you need money to survive, for food and to stay in a hotel. I did not have credit cards then. I don’t think credit cards even existed then. I don’t know. Maybe they did. But in every country and every place, I would take anything that was available. I would work in a restaurant, or at a hotel.

In Dar es Salaam, I walked into the hotel. I would ask the manager for a job.

How old were you?

I spent three years in the army. Then when I came back from the army, I started to work with my father for a few years. I was probably already 27, 28, 29.

How did you get into diamond dealing in Natanya?

When I got back from Africa. My father was used to be being retired. I bought my sister an electrolysis machine to start a business with. Me and her went to a few salons and she got a job using it there.

I reconnected with My friend Nachum in Natanya. Natanya was the center of diamond manufacturing. There was a meeting place in Natanya called Cafe Papa. Everyone would go there for coffee or drinks. This is how I got to know him. Before South Africa I would go see Nachum at his diamond factory after I finished working with my father. I would just look at diamonds with him under the loop.

Then when I got back. I was already trained and knew a little bit about diamonds. I went to the United States for the first time in 1972. I met my friend there from Natanya. He came to JFK to pick me up. It was so cold. I couldn’t stand it. Another guy from Netanya was staying with him whose father in law has a clothing store on 23 Street. We worked in the store.

I couldn’t stand the winter. And my friend said great. I am going to Miami. We left New York and met another friend of mine from Natanya there. Victor. I was doing random jobs and handiwork in Miami.

I left Miami and came back to New York when it was warm and went to 47th street. I saw my friend Amos Suliemani. I said I would stay in the US if I had a job and he gave me one working in diamonds. I got an apartment in Manhattan. A studio.

I started in the business in the US.

Did you speak English when you came to the US?

A little bit. Broken English.

How many languages do you speak now?

Russian, Polish, Hebrew, Yiddish, English. Maybe some German but not really from Yiddish.

Did you leave the US again after that point of starting your business?

I had a girlfriend in London, Marcel. I met her in Israel before I left for the US. She came for a week or two and then I went to the US. When I went to Miami she came and stayed with me there. Then she went back to London and I went back to New York. We were still corresponding. She said if you really love me you have to come to London. It was a big mistake. I stayed in her house. Her parents were getting divorced. A lot of stress and it wasn’t healthy. I also took a big risk leaving the US.

We didn’t break up but I left London because of the stress and went to Holland. We took a break. We both understood each other.

Why Holland?

There was a couple who would come to Israel every year. They would sit in Cafe Papa. We would go to this nightclub that I was friends with the owner. I would sell tickets for people to get in.

I called them when I knew I had to leave London. I stayed with them in the suburbs the first few days. Then he gave me the keys to his store in the center of Amsterdam that had a bedroom in the basement. I lived there for a few weeks. Then I wanted to go back to the US but my visa was finished.

He gave me a bunch of textile samples from his business and wrote a letter to the consulate to get me back in on a business visa. And then I went back to the US and 47th street.

Was it easy to stay in the US?

I had no green card. It was very hard to get but I had a visa that was still open.

Would you go back to Israel while you were in the US living?

Not to live but I would go back a few times a year to see my family and visit.

How did you finally meet mom?

Well, my goal in life was always to have a family. I met your mom, we dated for a little while and then we got married. And my whole goal was to build a family and to have as many children as possible. It didn’t matter how hard life was, I would do anything to have as many children as I could.

Eddie Zohar, your cousin’s dad, my friend from Israel, lived in Los Angeles. I lived in New York. When he moved here from Israel their first stop was in New York. I picked him and his friends up at JFK. I brought them to the Roosevelt Hotel. They stayed for a couple days. After a few years he sent me and my other friend a message, he called us and said I am coming to Long Island, Dix Hill, which I didn’t know at the time. And he is having an engagement party.

I was at the engagement party. It was very small with just the family. And I was with my friend and his fiancé. I didn’t know anyone and I stayed in the kitchen keeping quiet. I had some drinks and a few sandwich and mom came over to me and started to speak Hebrew to me. And that was the start of our relationship. She was very beautiful and I was very excited.

How did you meet Eddie?

I would see him every day in Cafe Papa.